Navigating Different Worship Styles in Multiethnic Families
July 22, 2025
www.CrossCulturalVoices.org
Joel Torres: When I used to go to church in Puerto Rico we, it was more charismatic. It's more lively. It's more, we even dance. And here, it's been taking me a while to adapt to that. At the end of the day, we worship the Lord. It doesn't matter what it looks like.
Claire Torres: As a mixed race couple, to actually be able to worship together in our heart languages, there's not many spaces that you can do that. And so that's been a very welcoming space for us, but I've had to learn in that space. They predominantly attract a lot of Latino background people. And so then for me, I'm putting myself in a position where I'm actually the minority in the room.
Robin Karkafi: Hey everyone, welcome to Cross-Cultural Voices. So glad you're here. I'm Robin.
John Yoder: And I'm John, welcome back as we're going to have part three of three, the conclusion of our interview with Joel and Claire in just a few minutes.
But before that, I've got good news I want to share with everyone. Next week, Maria Makhnach will be joining us as our second co-host. Through your generosity, we exceeded our target to bring her on board. So next week you will hear her story. She was born in Belarus, came to the US at the age of 11, and God has used her in medical missions, prison ministry in a lot more. So look forward to that.
But today we come to the conclusion of Joel and Claire's interview. And the part specifically that they focused on here is how they really worked hard to find worship that was meaningful to both of them. Robin, have you seen examples of people that you know from different cultures, that really struggle to find worship that's meaningful to both?
Robin Karkafi: Yeah, John. We had a missionary family from Indonesia join our church circles, of our church family of Evangelical Baptist Churches here in Ontario. And the father became the pastor of that small church. And it was out in a rural area and the congregation was very traditional. They used hymns and organs and quiet Sunday mornings, the whole shebang.
But the family brought something new with them. It was a hard transition, but what they found by adding more of the contemporary Christian music, and they introduced some of the newer songs some newer instruments and all that. Not to erase the old they had a mix of both. They noticed more younger people join the church. And that kind of turned things around, as that church was a bit on its last legs. And the numbers were dwindling to no one. But over time the mix of hymns really reflected the diversity of the congregation itself, old and new, and also even a bit of a an Indonesian influence to the music. Sometimes they had Indonesian versions of certain hymns in there as well, which is awesome to see.
John Yoder: Yeah, culture really plays a strong part in worship. Some churches are softspoken, and some are loud. Some want things freestyle, and others want more structure.
I know a church in South Minneapolis where a white church hosts a Latino church. The white church has a pretty stereotypical service, an hour and 15 minutes. The Latinos go for three and a half hours. They're noisy and raising their hands and making noise. And every now and then they try to do a joint service. But the Latinos going to the white service feel like they're just getting an appetizer and not a meal. And the Anglos are like, “Man, you guys make too much noise! And there's just too much emotion and stuff going on here!” I totally see how culture shapes their perspective of the way that they worship.
Joel is from Puerto Rico and has more of a Pentecostal background. Claire is from Britain and has more of a high church background. So right now we're gonna finish out their interview by hearing the way that they have managed to find worship that's meaningful to both of them.
Joel Torres: To me it is a little bit harder, because my culture, even when I used to go to church in Puerto Rico. It's more charismatic. It's more lively. It's more, we even dance, and here it's been taking me a while to adapt to that.
And understand that. Westwood Community Church, there's a lot of Lutheran background, a lot of people coming from Lutheran churches. And it's not as charismatic as you would want. So it's been taking me a while to adapt to that. But honestly, at the end of the day, we worship the Lord. It doesn't matter how it looks like, and yeah. And I have learned to adapt. And even if I have to dance at some point, I will do it.
Claire Torres: Yeah, that's right. He will dance and have his more lively expression and that's great. But we also have worshipped together at Destino, which is bilingual, Spanish and English. And that is been really fun.
Joel Torres: It’s a completely different spectrum.
Claire Torres: Yeah, and it's been good because then Joel can worship in Spanish, which is his first language, and I can worship in English. And so that's been nice for us to be able to experience that together as a mixed-race couple, to actually be able to worship together in our heart languages. There's not many spaces that you can do that. And so that's been a very welcoming space for us.
But I've had to learn in that space that predominantly attracts a lot of Latino background people. And so then for me, I'm putting myself in a position where I'm actually the minority in the room, rather than the majority. And actually that's been really good for me to expose myself. This is what it's like for Joel to be at Westwood Community Church as a minority in this white congregation. Me going to Destino has exposed, okay, this is what it's like to be a minority in a congregation, and to just examine some of those feelings.
John Yoder: So anything you've seen in mixed race people where their worship is just so different that it's a struggle to find something together?
Robin Karkafi: Yeah, for sure. Especially when they're they differ and both parties or multiple parties want different things. I have seen a trend of worship styles just changing over time to accommodate more types of worship. Like we've previously noted, which is great, but that there's still a struggle when you're talking about polar opposites like this. It's great to see that Claire has put herself in that environment, just so she could feel what Joel experiences in, a predominantly white congregation. I do find it is a bit less of a an issue with second gen and third gens, where they've integrated more into North American culture.
But as far as finding a comfortable space for people to worship, it's not always easy. In our church we have a good balance. Some people call it Bapti-costal or Pente-Baptist worship, where it's a bit of a mix with between Baptist and Pentecostal worship. And we have some very traditional people in our congregation and we're singing some very new contemporary Christian music, and there's lighting effects and the music is sometimes loud. But they stick around, they stay, they worship with us. They understand that this is how the new generation worship, and they see that. And we had someone comment just yesterday in our business meeting and that fills them with joy to see people worship, even if it's in a way that they're not comfortable with.
It's just, they've been in church for over 50 years and they've gone through all the different styles of worship. It's great to see people who are actually looking at the positive end of things, they're happy to see people worship. We are here to worship Christ, and to bring him glory. So I think it’s the right way of looking at it, and then finding some common ground.
John Yoder: I think you're absolutely right, that this is a bigger issue for the first gen who were born overseas and came here. Because back in Santiago or Beijing or Moscow or wherever they're from, there were very clear ways that things got done. But as you said, the second gen are a little bit more homogenous in their ways.
And I really appreciate what Joel and Claire said, that they each accommodate each other. He goes to the white more structured church, and she'll go to the Latino more Pentecostal church. They both realize it's not their primary thing, but because they love each other, they do it.
Joel and Claire don't have children. If they did, they would have three questions: How do we meet the husband’s, and the wife’s, and the kids' spiritual needs? And what's really important to realize is those are English-dominant kids. And if they're getting Sunday School and youth group in Swahili, Spanish, or anything else, that is not what they are spiritually wired for. And so therefore, sometimes one parent needs to say, “This is not the church that I would pick first for myself, but because I want my kids to fall in love with Jesus, this is the church we need to attend”.
Now, that's what they did to find a church together. But Joel and Claire had some things to say about healthy and toxic churches, and we wanna listen to what they had to say about that.
One of the issues you brought up is politics. And we are a politically polarized nation in that there's a few swing voters if you would, but most of us are on one side or the other, and many of us are not interested in being diplomatic. We know that our side is right and the other side is wrong. And many churches follow suit with that as well. Is there a place in the church of Jesus Christ for people of very different political backgrounds to listen to each other, to love each other, and build community even though they disagree?
Claire Torres: Oh yeah. That's maybe a cultural difference. In England, church and state is very separate. And so as a pastor, I never would've dreamed of making a political comment from the pulpit. I never would've. I would encourage people to vote as a Democratic right. And we would pray for the elections, but that would be where it stops.
I wouldn't ask people how they were voting. They wouldn't ask me how I was voting. It's just separate. And so when I moved to the U.S. I was very startled, like wow! There's some very divided political opinions within the church, and they're very vocal, and it actually divides the church.
And I moved here six months before COVID and sometime before the murder of George Floyd, and I got to see some of that play out in front of me as someone from a different culture. And it was shocking to me how brothers and sisters in Christ could divide, when really we should have been united in our prayers and in caring for those who were affected.
And so I had to work through some very complicated emotions, and also conversations with people of, “Okay, so why are we dividing? Because as far as I can see, we all love Jesus. So why are we allowing this to divide us?” And trying to just understand and wrestling with that, with people.
To your question, is there a place in the church for people of different political views, absolutely. We should be able to come to a point where we are united across any divide. Biblically, that's Jews and Gentiles together, male and female, those who were slaves and those who were free. Today, that looks like people from different ethnic backgrounds, and it looks like people from different political backgrounds. We absolutely are all one in Christ.
It saddens me that we allow things like politics to pull us apart. But again, we have to get to a place where we are able to have open and respectful conversation. Or if we can't, we keep our opinions inside our head. Just like we say, when raising children, right? We say to kids like, “You didn't need to say that. You don't need to say that. You can keep some things to yourself”.
John Yoder: I think it's really helpful for our listeners to understand that there are some churches and some Christians who are toxic and hurtful, but there are others who are healing. And so those who have church hurt, if they go to the wrong place, they're gonna find more church hurt, because there's plenty of it still being served.
But there are still many places, and many Christians, where they can tell. And for many, they've never shared their story because they've never had a safe place. And I think many of us need the model that we will listen, we will not be defensive. Since the whole Old Testament and New Testament is full of the errors of God's people, and the church today is no different. We just need to give people the space to share that story and find healing.
Claire Torres: Yeah, and to listen to them. And as I say, don't get defensive. And don't deny their experience either. Just because it's not your experience, it doesn't mean that it's not real and valid and was very painful. You know that's so important.
John Yoder: So Robin, you're a Canadian. Do you see Canadian churches very divided over politics or this is not a big deal?
Robin Karkafi: I do want to state I think there's two types of people, and then everybody in between. Two groups being people who don't care about politics at all, and people who really care about politics. And I am option one. I. At least closer to option one. I understand politics are necessary, but I would never be upset with any person in front of me for speaking their mind in a respectful manner.
And I hold I hold dearly to the Bible, and what God has given us. But in Canadian churches, I find, at least from what I've experienced, there's a healthy boundary across the board. We don't really talk about politics in a church setting. It's not something we really discuss. And not that it's taboo, but I feel like it's just a healthy thing that people just innately do.
But if there's ever a conversation that happens, I've only seen respectful healthy communication on my end, and that's a bit of a bias. Maybe I don't see the ugly side of it, but like Claire said, it is an issue of communication and conflict resolution. Some people are just not skilled at it. Or they just rather speak their mind and impose their opinion on other people, and prioritize that over respecting and caring for others, which is, I think, just an issue of priority, where your priorities lie. And God calls us to care and love each other first and foremost.
John Yoder: What word of wisdom or admonition would you speak to your American brothers and sisters who really get polarized about politics?
Robin Karkafi: Comradery and having good fellowship with people from all different types. There's always something to learn from each other. Truly like we are better off caring for each other than being divided. These are not trivial issues, I understand that. T things are important, but not as important as having good relationships with people around you. At least from my experience.
John Yoder: Yeah. Amen to that. And it's a struggle for us to be very passionate about our political beliefs, and yet be loving and gracious to those who are just as passionate in the other direction.
Claire and Joel made a closing statement about just how much of a blessing it's been for them to be in this mixed culture marriage. So we’ll listen into that.
Claire Torres: So we have a lot of fun. And I would say to people, with marriage, you just keep God at the center of it. Yes. And really everything else…
Joel Torres: …will fall into place. Yeah. Everything else will fall into place as you work, give it to God. It'll fall into place.
Claire Torres: Yeah. But we just see it as a wonderful opportunity that we have. Our cultural backgrounds actually add a lot of life and joy and fun to our marriage, and we're very grateful for that.
Robin Karkafi: I just love this couple, honestly so much to admire. It's interesting to see how God has used them to spread positivity.
John Yoder: Yes, totally. They are the kind of great role model that's a real encouragement to other multiethnic families.
That wraps it up for our three-part interview with Joel and Claire. Remember that next week you'll get to meet our new cohost, Maria Makhnach. Talk to you then.
