Our Catholic-Baptist Marriage
August 26, 2025
www.CrossCulturalVoices.org
John Yoder: What was the biggest conflict you faced as a couple?
Jerrin Job: So I think for me, one of the bigger conflicts was just with respect to the differences in religion. I think that was a big point of conflict for us.
Danica White: I grew up, like I said, in a Baptist church. A a really key, important part of my growing up faith, as well as continued personal faith, is like just having that personal connection with God.
Actually before meeting Jerrin, I didn't know a lot of Catholics. I knew a few, but I didn't really know a lot of Catholics in general. And so before we started dating, I just wanted to make sure that he had that personal connection with God.
Robin Karkafi: Hey everyone, welcome to Cross-Cultural Voices. I'm Robin.
John Yoder: Hey, John here.
Maria Makhnach: And Maria.
John Yoder: Let me ask you this. When you, your first years in the church, your early years in the faith, what were the kind of things that Christians argued about?
Maria Makhnach: Dress code! In general, when you come into the church, you're supposed to, look presentable and modest. So modesty meaning, if we can get down to specifics, like for girls, is we're wearing skirts versus wearing pants to church, and like no shorts. And putting on your best clothes, not looking like you just woke up and rolled out a bed. Putting in effort to look well presented on Sunday. Being on time
John Yoder: How about you, Robin, what kind of things were they arguing about?
Robin Karkafi: Some of the stuff that's evolved over the years is worship. We have the worship style. When I was a kid, it all used to be super conservative, head coverings, like Maria said, skirts only for women. And as the church evolved our worship, we started doing a mix of hymns and Christian songs.
John Yoder: So let me ask you about the church you attended in your high school days. Just a quick yes or no. Tattoos, yes or no?
Maria Makhnach: No.
Robin Karkafi: Nope. Definitely not.
John Yoder: Green hair?
Maria Makhnach: No.
Robin Karkafi: No.
John Yoder: Men with earrings?
Robin Karkafi: It's a no.
Maria Makhnach: No, definitely not.
John Yoder: So we've had a really good time in this series, which is Multiethnic Marriage Survival Skills. But today's interview is really different ,because in the other interviews we talked about personality differences and cultural differences. And today we're talking about denominational differences.
And in today's interview, Jerrin shares with us how he grew up Catholic in India, and as he moved to the United States, and as he began to date Danica who came from a Baptist background, one of the biggest issues that they had to work through is “What is a Christian? What kind of church should we go to?”
And I believe that as I listened to him, that Jerrin truly is a born-again Christian. He is our brother in Christ. And that faith in Christ came through the Catholic mass.
But I also want to recognize that many people who come through that do not experience saving faith. So we're going to have a fascinating conversation today. And right now, let's listen to part one of their interview.
What was, what from your perspective, has been the biggest conflict you faced as a couple?
Jerrin Job: So I think for me, one of the bigger conflicts was just with respect to the differences in religion. I think that was a big point of conflict for us. But eventually I think we are both trying to seek, or I think that is the underlying foundation that both of us have now. I think with that foundation we have a common goal, I should say. We have a common goal with that underlying foundation. I think that was a point of struggle for us in the beginning.
John Yoder: So why don't you tell us a little bit about each of your separate religious backgrounds, what are some of the differences, and then how have you learned to come together?
Danica White: Yeah, so I grew up, like I said, in a Baptist church. They're called Converge to separate themselves from like Southern Baptist and whatnot. So a really key, important part of my growing up faith, as well as continued personal faith, is like just having that personal connection with God. So Baptist are not big on a lot of rituals or anything like that. But really key the really main thing is like having a personal relationship with God. So that was something that was very important to me.
Like actually before meeting Jerrin, I like didn't know a lot of Catholics. I knew a few, but I didn't really know a lot of Catholics in general. And so before we started dating, like I just wanted to make sure that he had that personal connection with God as well.
John Yoder: What thoughts do you have about that first segment?
Maria Makhnach: I like the self-awareness the reflection on, it's okay, this is what I was taught, this is what my spouse was taught, and like these, this is the differences and how do we come together? To me that shows a whole, shows the level of maturity.
John Yoder: So they did not enter this immediately saying, my side is right and your side is wrong.
Maria Makhnach: Yeah, I think that's key, because it means the person is open to come in with an open mind. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to change the other person, but at least they're open to be educated. She was like, I haven't met a lot of Catholics. I'm open to be educated and to hear out your side.
I think sometimes one of the things that we do when you grow up in a particular way, and Baptist versus Pentecostal, Catholic, doesn't matter. We're so quick to convince people that what I think and the way I grew up is the ultimate truth. When, again, like we said at the end of the day. It's not about your preferences and your convictions, it's about what does the Bible say? And as many as there's people, there's as many interpretations. People will all have the personal opinion. So that's where you have to separate, it's like biblical teaching versus your opinions.
Robin Karkafi: Honestly, every time I hear in whether it's a friend's opinion or something, I even say that I'm not, entirely sure of, I'll ask myself where in the Bible? Does it say that? And more than that, is it a gospel issue? Or is it just a nuanced issue? If it's not a gospel issue, if we all agree on the gospel then I think that's the best solid foundation we can have is the gospel of Jesus.
And I feel Jerrin here is seeks God, right? In that regard. And yes, there is that sense of openness to learning from each other.
John Yoder: Good thoughts. Let's listen in now to part two of their story.
Jerrin Job: So for me, I think one of the main key tenets in Catholicism is just the communion, I think, for us, I think the reverence for communion that there is in the Catholic church is something that I really appreciate.
My religious journey was, I was raised a Catholic, and then when I came to the US, I met Hospitality Center. And when I was invited to Danica’s church, I was almost on my journey to be a non-Catholic Christian. So honestly when we were dating, so that's, I was at her church and she told me that I should have a personal connection with God, and then I should read my Bible a little more. And then once I started diving a little more deeper into it, that's when I became more Catholic. I feel I feel like, no, it really drew me.
I feel like Catholicism is so much intense and so much deeper, just in theology and a lot of different things. I was just very much drawn to it just because of how intellectually complex also the faith is there. Maybe I'm just, very much drawn to something that is very intellectual in general. So I just was very much drawn to Catholicism there.
And also there was a lot of and then as I said, the reverence for communion is something that I really appreciate in Catholicism, the reverence for being inside the altar, inside the church, I feel like there's, that is something that I have appreciated.
John Yoder: So what do you make of Jarron's spiritual journey at this point?
Robin Karkafi: I appreciate as he calls it, his reverence for communion. And I'm curious to see what he, what he means by that. As far as I know, for Catholics I'm pretty sure they hold to transubstantiation, which it means, I think it means that the bread and wine they eat, literally becomes the blood and body of Jesus Christ as you eat.
Maria Makhnach: I think sometimes it's very easy to go and turn communion to a ritual, just something we do. But in reality, if you think about it, if you take the time to pause, we'll never fully understand what Jesus went through when he went to the cross, and the price that he paid, we just won't. And so the least that we can do is to take pause and to reflect on what he did and how much that cost him. And it's like, where are we in our journey, in our walk with the Lord?
John Yoder: Robin, you are correct. The Catholic Church believes in transubstantiation, and that means that the bread and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ.
For the three of us, having come from Baptist or Pentecostal traditions, we believe that the bread and the cup are pictures and symbols of the body and blood, but they are not actually the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
An illustration we would use is, I have a picture of Sherry on the wall. I respect and honor that picture, but not to the same level that I actually respect and love the person, Sherry. Versus, the Catholic teaching is that picture actually becomes the person. So that there is a difference in our theological beliefs, but what we can all have in common is deep respect or reverence for the time that we come to that table.
And if it is proclaimed that this is a remembrance that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, sacrificed his life for us to have eternal life, then we can indeed be born again through that experience. And I think that is what Jerrin and I think many other global Catholics have experienced.
One of the things that Jaron stated he really liked about Catholicism is its intellectual depth. Now, if you've ever read Thomas Aquinas or other Catholic theologians, you will know that there's rich depth there. However, the average North American or Latin American Catholic does not experience that. The teaching that they experience is quite shallow.
And so I want to affirm what Jaron is saying, and yet I want to affirm that it is an outlier. I do not know what Catholicism is like in India. In my seven trips to India, I spent all my time with Protestant pastors, so there may be a depth of teaching present in the Catholic church in India that I simply don't know about.
Whatever it is, Jerrin experiences a Catholic church as intellectually deep and rich. And I honor and respect his perspective. I believe that most North and South American Catholics don't experience that.
Let's listen to part three of their story.
Jerrin Job: Even though there is a high Church Majesty experience in the Catholic Church, it is not devoid of the personal relationship with God. So I feel like both of them can go hand in hand.
And I have had the personal relationship with God, during my growing up years with my communion and everything. I will say that I lost God somewhere along the way, but then I had that personal relationship or the personal connection. And then when I come back there is communion. And I feel like the communion really helps have that personal connection back with God also. So I think both are not mutually exclusive. Both definitely can go hand in hand.
John Yoder: What have you found that works for both of you in a style of worship that is meaningful?
Jerrin Job: We attend both Catholic church and a non-Catholic church. So we attend her church and we attend my church. So we are taking both together, and that's how we are doing it right now.
Honestly, what I have realized after coming to the US is that the Catholic church has a lot more focus on the communion part. However, the non-Catholic church has a lot more focus on the education of the Bible part. I think those are the two different things that I have realized. And it's I will agree that the Catholic Church does not focus a lot on the education of the Bible as much as the non-Catholic churches do. So I really like that aspect, and I would like to go deeper into that also.
Danica White: I will say we also attend we've been attending like a Bible study regularly outside of church with like different friends. And I feel like the, those kind of settings are another way that we really can grow spiritually as well. Reading the Bible and then talking about it with other people, not just like going to church on Sundays, but having that community as well.
John Yoder: What do you make of their solution?
Robin Karkafi: I really like it. Honestly. I think they have a really good like compromise, as far as being considered of each other, but also growing spiritually together. I like them going to Bible study outside of the church. It provides an opportunity to reflect and see, okay, what does life and how do we do this outside of the church? And educate themselves more like theologically. Having those conversations and learning from each other RA rather than trying to prove a point.
John Yoder: Let's listen to part four.
So Danica, you grew up Baptist, and often Baptists do not have kind things to say about Catholics. What has it been like for you to become a regular attender at Catholic Mass?
Danica White: Yeah, like I said, I was like very worried, at first, what is this gonna be like? Is it like real? I don't know.
And my parents don't necessarily love that Jerrin’s Catholic, you know? But I will say that I've like really encountered God as well during Catholic mass, and I feel like, to me it matters less necessarily about exactly what's going on inside of the church and more about where your heart is at. So I think that is like very important to me.
And I also feel like God, sometimes I wonder like, why are there so many different churches? But I think God speaks to people in different ways and different people may have, be able to encounter God better at different churches that look very different.
John Yoder: So Danica closed with the statement that God speaks with different people in different ways, and shows himself to people in very different means. Have you experienced that?
Robin Karkafi: I honestly can't count how many times God's just spoken through the most unconventional methods. And sometimes he'll use other people who aren't necessarily strong in their walk with Christ. But like Danica said, I mean her encounter with God at the mass is really because her heart is set on finding, following Christ and following God and deepening her faith.
John Yoder: I really enjoyed meeting the two of them, and I really enjoyed their openness in sharing not only their story, but permitting us as a group to share our thoughts.
As a pastor, it was very necessary for me to actually share some things with our audience at a greater depth. We believe in individual people's stories, and we believe it's important to listen into them. But ultimately our faith is based on the Word of God.
So I have two short teaching segments that I'm going to share right now. The first just simply asks the question, “What is a Christian, and what is not?” And the second asks the question, “As evangelical Protestants, how do we view the Roman Catholic Church?” And although we admit that many tens of millions are born-again Christians, we do have some significant misgivings there.
For the sake of clarity, I wrote them out. If you would like to get a copy of this, we have both transcripts and we have a blog at our website, www.crossculturalvoices.org. So if you'd like to get a copy of it, just visit us there.
I use an AI called Descript, so I wrote the text out. Our AI has about 14 different personalities to read it. This is read by a young man named Tyler, so I am going to let Tyler take it away and teach it here.
Jerrin's story about finding genuine faith through Roman Catholicism will spark different reactions among our listeners. Some believe Catholics are genuine believers and feel uncomfortable when anyone suggests otherwise. Others view Catholicism as a distorted form of Christianity, even joining Martin Luther in calling the pope an Antichrist.
This tension leads us to a question at the very core of our faith: Who is a Christian? And who is not? When we stand before God, our denominational labels won't matter. So what will?
Scripture consistently teaches that faith alone brings salvation:
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)
"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:31)
"For by grace you have been saved through faith." (Ephesians 2:8)
Biblical faith is the conscious choice to affirm that what Scripture says about Jesus is true, and to follow him as Lord.
This raises another question: What external practices must accompany genuine faith? Some emphasize Catholic mass (which Protestants call communion) and baptism as essential for salvation. Many evangelicals insist that authentic faith requires a prayer inviting Jesus into one's heart as personal savior.
The reality is that people can participate in any religious practice—even praying to receive Christ—without expressing genuine faith. Jesus himself warned: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).
Consider children raised in Christian homes who experience genuine faith from their earliest conscious moments. This faith exists before baptism or communion, and doesn't result from a specific prayer to receive Christ. It's simply the recognition that the story about Jesus is true, and the desire to follow him.
Based on this understanding of salvation, I affirm Jerrin as my brother in Christ. According to his testimony, he experiences genuine faith as he participates in mass. Millions of Catholics worldwide share similar experiences of authentic faith.
Robin Karkafi: I was thinking like, just picturing meeting a person like in in public, and talking to them about Christ. And then instead of asking them, What church do you go to? I think the right question to ask is, How has Jesus changed your life? And how has he worked there? So I really think God can work through everybody's life. That should be our goal, to spread the gospel and to see lives changed by his love.
John Yoder: So when Jerrin grew up in India, it was really important to the people that influenced him that he take the communion. But people did not articulate, You need to have a personal relationship with God. It wasn't until he moved to America and started dating Danica and she said, Do you have a personal relationship with God? She was asking a question nobody ever asked before. Does that mean he didn't have a personal relationship with God?
Maria Makhnach: No.
John Yoder: He just was with people who didn't use those words. And for many of us, we grew up with a set of words that express our faith. And if somebody can't use our words, we're not sure they're Christians, and I'm not sure that's helpful.
Alright, let's listen to part two of my teaching segment.
The primary question must always be: Who is and is not a Christian? A secondary question evaluates the strengths and weaknesses of different denominations. Many Catholic beliefs conflict with Protestant understanding of Scripture: the veneration of Mary, prayers to saints, papal infallibility, and more.
Latino Protestant friends have told me how Latin American Catholicism often blends with indigenous religious practices, creating something barely recognizable as Christian. This contrasts sharply with Jerrin's experience of Catholicism in India. My experiences in India have been with Protestant pastors, so I can’t comment on the relative health of Indian Catholicism.
Let me sum up in three statements: First, anyone from any denomination can receive eternal life through faith in Christ, regardless of what rites do or don’t accompany that faith. Second, there are enough Catholic beliefs and practices contrary to biblical truth that I do not recommend it as a first choice. Third, Christians should affirm and partner with all who demonstrate genuine faith in Christ, regardless of their denominational background.
Maria Makhnach: I like it.
Robin Karkafi: It's a solid framework, that's for sure.
John Yoder: Maria, today is your last day with us. Would you like to take a minute or so and share with us what's next for you? We celebrate the month you've spent with us. It's been wonderful, but we also celebrate where God is taking you next.
Maria Makhnach: It's been a pleasure working with you guys honestly. Truly next chapter for me is Bible School. I’m going to Christ for the Nations. I'm excited to see how God is gonna move and what opportunities are to come ahead. I'm very sad to leave, but for right now, that is the decision that the Lord has placed in my heart, and ultimately at the end of the day, I wanna do what he desires of me.
John Yoder: Amen! We affirm you as our sister in Christ. We affirm your giftedness as a teacher and presenter. And I just want to pray over you briefly as you leave us and as you move to Orlando.
Father, we thank you for Maria. We thank you for her submission to you and to the gospel of Christ. As she takes this next step of her spiritual journey to go to Orlando, to attend this school, we pray for your anointing upon her, upon all the content that she learns upon, upon all the relationships and networks that she builds. And as she winds that down, may you guide her to the place where you would have her to use the giftedness you have placed in her. We ask this in Jesus name, Amen.
Maria Makhnach: Amen. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. It's been a blessing working with you guys.
John Yoder: Today wraps up our series, Multiethnic Family Survival Skills. It's been a lot of fun. We have a great series that begins next week. There is a tremendous Christian band here in Minneapolis called Heart of the City. They are highly diverse. These people come from many different ethnicities.
They have five albums. One man, Dan Adler, has written all of this music in many different styles. You're gonna hear from Dan who wrote this, and we are going to hear the stories behind the songs, which are absolutely amazing. So I think you will really enjoy next month, which is our fall concert series.
Maria Makhnach: I am excited. I'll be listening.
