How Jesus Meets Shame
Cross-Cultural Voices
Maisee Vang: The people who choose to never return back to church, these people are usually deeply hurt. They have most likely have been both rejected and put to shame. And I believe that the reason why they don't come back to church is because they have this belief that all churches and Christian believers are the same.
And they don't think that coming back to church, or going to a new church, would make any difference. So as a result, they'd rather not go altogether. Because of that deep hurt and pain, they just don't think it's worth it.
Robin Karkafi: Hey everyone, welcome to Cross Culture Voices. I'm Robin.
Maisee Vang: I'm Maisee.
John Yoder: And I'm John. Maisee, for the last few weeks, we have gotten to know you a little bit, but you've brought a guest. Tell us about your guest.
Maisee Vang: Yeah. I have the special honor of bringing on my very own husband. He goes by the name Victor, but his actual real name is Teu, which means, little boy in Hmong. I met him for the first time while he was leading worship on stage, and his sister introduced me to him.
John Yoder: So Teu, it's a pleasure to meet you. We're so glad to have you on our podcast. Tell us a little bit about your family, how your parents came to the us, how you grew up, a little of your church background.
Teu Hawj: Yes. First of all, I just wanna thank you guys for having me on this podcast. Super honored and blessed to be able to jump on this episode with you guys.
I was born in California, in Fresno, more of on the countryside. So I'm a country boy, born into a Christian family and raised up with always going to church and attending youth, attending church activities. So I was always familiar with that.
My parents were actually converted before they came to the States. So that's how they arrived here, through missionaries. And yeah, I was been exposed to the Christian life. When my wife came along, it was really refreshing to see someone who wasn't a Christian. And I believe that it was truly God just really brought us together, and he had everything planned out for us.
John Yoder: That's great. So to tell us about your job and also about the ministries that you do at church.
Teu Hawj: Yeah. My job took me a while to really hone into the what God has called me to.
And that was specifically, I'm a tile setter. Grown up as a construction worker. My dad had me work with him as a very young age just doing construction. And eventually I landed to be a tile setter. God opened up a opportunity to open up my business, and that also became my ministry. My business name is called Cornerstone Tiling.
So I really wanted to create a culture for my workers to really grow in their faith as well as, as much as they are working with me. So just really creating that environment and for ministry. I've always been leading worship my whole life, which kept me out of trouble. And yeah, just been a worshiper for most of my life.
John Yoder: Teu, welcome to Cross-Cultural Voices. We're so glad to have you with us, and right now, let's begin our conversation for the day.
There are a lot of second gen who have dropped out of the church because issues get dealt with in unhealthy ways. There are some young adults who are burned by the church and they're never coming back. They just don't like it at all.
There are others that might go to a different church. It could be the same ethnicity as their mom and dad. It could be an American church. It could be a multi-ethnic church, or there are some that start a small group that is not attached to a church. And then there are others who return to their mom and dad's church.
Can you tell us some stories of young adults who have had those negative experiences with church, whether they're the ones who never came back or the ones who have returned?
Maisee Vang: These people are usually deeply hurt. They have most likely been both rejected and put to shame. And I believe that the reason why they don't come back to church is because they have this belief that all churches and Christian believers are the same. And they don't think that coming back to church are going to a new church would make any difference.
So as a result, they'd rather not go altogether. And because of that deep hurt and pain, they just don't think it's worth it. They're just, if this is what church is about, I'd rather not go. And you are right. I have seen in some instances where they may even denounce their faith altogether because of that deep hurt, and typically it's because they've seen this enough over and over again, of the same hurt, the same pain where they're just tired of this, and then they start to question if God is real.
And then I've also seen other instances where people who have denounced their faith because maybe this was their first time to a church and they were newer in their faith. And having experienced this within the church right off the bat, may have turned them off from continuing to seek.
John Yoder: You're saying that people experienced hurt and that's why they're walking away from faith. Tell me about that hurt. What kinds of hurt have they experienced?
Maisee Vang: Yeah, I feel like the type of hurt that people are experiencing it starts with small conflict, right? It might be differences in, theology, it might be differences in the way a church should be run. It might be even differences in how you do ministry or how you disciple another person, right? All things that, I feel like could be talked through, and both parties could come to an agreement. But unfortunately sometimes those things are not reconciled. And because both parties are not able to come to an agreement, unfortunately things do fall out and it causes hurt. It causes pain.
Maybe one person was put to shame. I've seen instances where, you know one person, he felt like he wasn't being honored. He's been at this church for so long. Although it might be unintentional ,when someone feels like they're not being honored or respected within the church, then they start to feel a certain type of way.
Robin Karkafi: There is, I feel a case by case scenario for every person and how their experience of the church was ,you have people who've left because there was a conflict avoidance. Or there was an issue with them having an ideal of what the church looked like, and it didn't line up. Or they had just been personally hurt by someone.
And there was no culture of repentance. No reconciliation happening to different people. I think the understanding that whether you're at church or outside, you will face people who will hurt you, a hundred percent. But I think that this needs to be a distinction made as far as, what that reflects about Christ. I think people are people and they're gonna hurt each other, but Christ, again, this does not relate to him. And that's all Christianity is about Christ and the gospel.
And so if you've left the church because of people or because of an experience or just because it didn't fit how you felt like you needed to feel, then I would say, good. You've experienced humanity at its finest. Seek Christ first and foremost, and then see where he leads you. And then understand that part of God's blessing for us is to have fellowship.
And that comes at a cost. There's a cost of facing other people and facing that reconciliation. But leaving the church does not mean that God left you. God is with you. And he wants to know you. So seek him, seek his word, and allow him to heal. And adjust any, ideas or thoughts or past experiences that you've held onto because of that.
And you don't have to come back to the same place or the same way. Seek a place where God leads you first. And don't church shop for too long.
John Yoder: That's one of the reasons we have this podcast. If any of you have a friend who has dropped out of church because of very negative experiences, we want this to be a place that people could come and listen to a podcast, read a blog, and realize not all Christians are like that. That there are Christians who are healing, who are restorative, and if they can begin the process by hearing voices online, that might encourage them to say, I will seek out another church at another point.
This is a really powerful conversation about the subject of shame, but we want to turn our attention right now to the word of God and see how Jesus dealt with shame. So Maisee, you have a brief lesson for us on that subject. Can you tell us about that?
Maisee Vang: Have you ever felt a deep sense of guilt for a wrongdoing that you've committed? Or someone else did to you? It makes us want to hide and to cover up our flaws and failures so others won't see them.
It's a heavy burden and it isolates us. We keep replaying that moment of shame until it shapes how we see ourselves. For some, shame becomes so painful that they turn to temporary escapes like alcohol, substances, or unhealthy habits just to feel relief for a moment. But the relief never lasts. Shame always returns until we learn to face it, not through our own strength, but through God's grace.
Now let's look at what the Bible says about shame. So in John chapter eight, verses three to eleven, it says this:
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the law, Moses commanded us to stone such woman. Now, what do you say?’”
The Pharisees weren't really interested in justice. They were using this woman's sin to trap Jesus, to twist his words against him. Imagine the woman standing there surrounded by accusers, exposed and humiliated. Her shame was public. Her sin was visible.
The Pharisees thought they had the perfect plan to trap Jesus. If he said the woman caught in adultery shouldn't be stoned, they could accuse him of breaking the Mosaic law according to Leviticus Chapter 20. But if he agreed that she should be stoned, he would be violating Roman law, which forbade the Jewish people from carrying out executions. It was a carefully crafted trap. One they believed Jesus couldn't escape.
But Jesus saw right through their intentions. He knew their hearts and the hypocrisy behind their question. Instead of responding immediately, he bent down and began writing in the dirt. When they kept pressing him, he stood up and said the words that silenced the crowd: “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first one to throw a stone at her.”
In that single sentence, Jesus turned their trap back on them. One by one, from the oldest to the youngest, they dropped their stones and walked away.
When the crowd had disappeared, only Jesus and the woman remained. Jesus looked at her and asked “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She replied, “No one, sir.” And then Jesus spoke words that changed everything: “Neither do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin.”
In that moment, Jesus didn't just release her from judgment. He offered her a fresh start. His mercy wasn't permission to continue in sin. It was an invitation to transformation. Through his compassion, the woman was called into a new life, one marked by repentance, freedom, and grace.
That is the beauty of God's mercy. It doesn't leave us where it finds us. It forgives, restores, and empowers us to live differently.
As followers of Christ, we are called to reflect that same. When someone's sin is exposed, our response shouldn't be to shame or condemn them, but to gently lead them back to Jesus, the only one who can truly heal and redeem.
Before we confront or call out another person's sin, especially within the public, we should pause and exam our own motives. Are we acting out of love or pride? Are we seeking restoration or satisfaction? Is our goal to reconcile this person back to Christ? True accountability should always lead someone back to Christ, not push them further away in shame, just as Jesus offered grace that day. We are invited to extend that same grace to others, guiding them toward repentance, renewal, and to go and sin no more.
For the sinners stuck in shame, let us rest in this truth: there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
John Yoder: You know, Maisee, that is such a powerful lesson. I think of this woman who was clearly guilty. She's caught in adultery, and I think it comes down to a question of whose voice we listen to.
If she listened to the voice of the crowd, she would be covered with shame. If she listened to her own internal voice, she might say, I am a dirty, defiled person. But she listens to the voice of Jesus. She would hear somebody saying, “Now go, sin no more. Don't continue in that path, but I do not condemn you.”
How can we change so that we tune our ears to focus on what Jesus says and not what on others have to say?
Maisee Vang: Absolutely. Yeah. I believe that at least for myself, when I'm caught in the feelings of shame, I actually close my eyes and I pray right there, right then. And I ask Jesus. I close my eyes, my ears to the rest of this world, and let me just focus on you and your voice alone right now.
And those are the things that we can ask for, and I believe that through our earnest and genuine prayers that Jesus will be able to do that for us.
John Yoder: How can churches today become places that heal people from shame?
Robin Karkafi: I think, in my opinion, of how churches can be a safe space to not draw people further away in shame. But I think just welcoming people as they are and knowing that as they come to Christ that. Holy Spirit will work in them.
And as Jesus did, Jesus forgave her. He acknowledged her sin, but it was an invitation for her to live a no new life. And just as he said, go and sin no more. And, I think that's really what the gospel is about. Jesus didn't come to save the righteous. He came to save the broken and the sinners. And if we as Christians just continues to be around those who are not sinners, how are we helping those who are broken, those who need to be helped?
And so we need to not push people further in shame, but rather help them and point towards the gospel, so that they are called to live a new life as Jesus has called them to.
John Yoder: Thanks everybody for some great conversation today. Next time, we are going to continue this conversation, as we discuss what rejection looks like in the church.
